On August 30, according to Protos, Lava founder Shehzan said that about 400 "second-layer" solutions are expected to run on the Bitcoin blockchain. Shehzan pointed out in the August 25 Gwart Show that the actual value of these roll-ups and alternative blockchains has been called into question. Some put the number of such projects at only 80 to 85, while some estimate more than 1,000. The estimates vary so much because anyone can "roll-up" the data and broadcast a tiny hash to any miner, which technically creates a "Bitcoin second layer". Many of these second-layer solutions are simple clones of Ethereum roll-ups that process data primarily on centralized servers outside the Bitcoin network and periodically broadcast state hashes into Bitcoin blocks.